Kevin Harlan is Still Searching for the Perfect Broadcast

VICE Sports: I want to jump in with a question I’m sure you’re asked all the time, but what call of yours are you most proud of or feel you’re best known for?

Kevin Harlan: I guess I’m best known for the LeBron dunk back against Boston, five, ten years ago. I’m not really sure when it was to be quite honest. There’s a dunk over Kevin Garnett. He was the reigning Defensive Player of the Year and LeBron was beginning to emerge as this player that we’re seeing now, and that call has gotten a lot of notoriety.

I’ve never done a conference finals. I’ve never done an NBA Finals. I’ve never done an All-Star game. There are certain games that you do along an NBA season that might have a call here or there that’s pretty good or that fans will latch onto. I’m really not as dialed into the social media thing the way I probably should be or certainly the way my daughters are, and son, so they’ll tell me from time to time that something I said…like the other night we were doing a promo for Lil Uzi Vert. He was going to perform at halftime or the postgame of our show. It was Los Angeles before the All-Star game.

And I go "Have they missed a couple letters here in this guy’s last name because it doesn’t even make sense." I’d never heard of the guy before, and so I looked him up during a commercial break because they handed me the card, and they said you’ve got to read this coming out of the commercial. And I said "Who is this? What is this? I didn’t know if it was a game or, I wasn’t sure what it was. So I read the card and said ‘Who doesn’t love the song Money…" or whatever the name of the song was, and my girls start texting me like "Dad what’d you say about Lil Uzi Vert?" I said "I don’t know I just read the card!" so I play a little dumb with them sometimes. I’m really not dialed into this stuff.

There was a great three-point shot by LeBron in a regular season game the day after the Super Bowl a couple years ago. I’d just done the Super Bowl then flew to Washington, and they were playing the Wizards. He hit a big-time three-point shot that I think tied the game, falling out of bounds, right in front of the bench. Just a remarkable, remarkable shot.

When I was doing Jordan when I first got to TNT, and before that with the Timberwolves, anytime he touched the ball you just knew something big was gonna happen, but I can’t really tell you if there’s a specific call that stands out. They all kind of blend together, to be quite honest. But I know the LeBron thing has been a special treat for people around the internet, and they’ll play it when I come back into Cleveland, in the arena sometimes.

It’s personally my favorite call of all time, and I don’t want to harp on it too much, but how did With No Regard For Human Life even pop into your head?

Well I used it three times. One time it was Kevin getting dunked on LeBron. When I was doing the Timberwolves and Garnett was a young player, I think I used it then. And then I used it in Madison Square Garden when Kobe had 61, and he had a big dunk. Big, big dunk off the baseline, reverse, came up the left side and really hammered it.

You can’t write anything down because it would not sound like it would be in the flow of a call. I get asked these questions a lot "How did you think of that?” and I don’t know. I’m not a very smart guy. I’m kind of a goofy guy, I guess, and so when it came with Garnett back in the early Timberwolves days, they were so bad that we were just kind of looking for things to keep us awake and focused during the broadcast because we were getting our brains beat in all the time, and so we’d joke around. I worked with a couple guys that I really liked and we would have a good time on the air even though we’d pile up the losses and win 15 games and lose 60 whatever, so you try to keep yourself motivated and creative, and so we’d come up with stuff like that.

What triggers it, though, is kind of when you see the expression afterwards. I was working with Doug Collins, who I just adore. But Doug, when he saw that, it takes a lot for him to get into it, and he took his left arm, braced it against my chest, leaned back in the chair, thus moving me back in the chair, so literally I was falling backwards when we saw that dunk. And he was so excited. I know that’s what kind of lit my fuse on that particular call.

The fact that he had to get by a couple of guys on the move, and how far he was away. And his arm was fully extended and then he goes over the reigning Defensive Player of the Year. I mean, that’s a pretty stunning thing to see. And there’s not a lot of that in the NBA, when you have the confluence of rising superstar and established defensive presence and big-time playoff game and national audience and everything just kind of came together. And when he had that dunk with Doug’s reaction, it just kind of came out.

I’m really surprised a lot of us don’t say dumber stuff, like, there’s not obscenities that come out. Because when you’re in the stands, you’re standing there saying "Holy shit, what was that?" In replacing those vile words, we come up with things like "With no regard for human life." But LeBron at that stage was a young player and just really beginning to take over, and the transition from Kobe to him was in full flower and you could see this kid was a special kid. And then to do it against a veteran like Garnett, a championship team like the Celtics, was a pretty big thing.

How would you describe your style as a play-by-play broadcaster, and in your field is it important at all to stand out and separate yourself in anyway?

First and foremost I think I’m a fan, and I have this great seat to watch these players do stuff that I just, like, I watch Harden and words don’t do it justice, the kind of stuff that he does. Kind of like LeBron. The stuff he does is just, one minute he’s zipping a pass down the lane through a bunch of arms and legs, and the next he’s skying up to grab a rebound against a taller, stronger player, and then he takes a three-point shot with ease and grace. Then you watch Harden stopping on a dime, backpedaling up and getting above the arc and hitting a three and the passing and the presence and the vision. So I’m really inspired and like a fan in that regard. I’m a passionate person. I’m an emotional persona. And it just kind of comes out. It’s probably best suited for a local broadcast as opposed to a national broadcast, but I really just enjoy it.

My dad was in pro sports for so long and I’ve been around baseball clubhouses and NFL fields and locker rooms and sidelines my whole life. I don’t know if my dad ever told me this but he probably lived by this credo because that’s kind of the way he ran his: He loved what he did, would’ve done it for free, and felt it was an honor to be there. I feel the same way. It’s an honor to do these games. NBA, NFL, or college basketball. I’ve really enjoyed college basketball and the tournament. It’s such an honor to be there, so I let my emotions sometimes get the best of me.

But you know, a great pass in the first quarter should not be downplayed. Now, in the realm of a game is it significant? Probably not in the first quarter. First half. And people will say "Oh you should wait until the end of the game!" Are you saying that a great pass by Harden or a juke and he breaks a guy’s ankles and the guy goes tumbling down and it’s the second quarter, I’m not gonna show a little bit of emotion? You’ve got to be kidding me. So I feel like when a good play happens, a good play happens. Now, maybe you save an extra gear for late in the game when it has a bearing on the outcome, but I’ve got to tell you that in every game there’s a highlight or something happens that is just, to me, incredible. Every single game, and I’ve done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of basketball games. Moreso with the pros than college, but the pro game I see stuff where I can not believe what I just saw. And I like having that feeling, because I’m thinking the fans that are watching in their seats, back and around us, I know they’re saying the same thing: "Wow did you see that play?!" And that’s how I feel.

How important is it to inject humor into a broadcast?

Unfortunately we’re in a business now where personalities and…before you were asking, Michael, about how to stand out. I think when you try to stand out that becomes an issue because I think you have to go into it calling the game and making sure you’re prepared and have done all the professional things you need to do. And as they tell these players, you’ve prepared all week and you’ve lifted these weights and you’ve run these miles and gone through the sets, now go out and have fun! I feel like I’ve prepared all week or all night or however long for my game until I go do it, well I want to go out and have some fun. I really am enjoying myself.

I love the business. I don’t like much around the business, but I love the business. I love doing the games because at the end of the day personalities and having fun seem to always grab the attention, and a lot of guys I think are graded on their humor as opposed to how they’re calling the game and I think you’re mistaken if you don’t recognize that. But I don’t think you can force it. We have to read these billboards, you know, so "The NBA on TNT is brought to you by GEICO, 15 minutes can…" and last night for the first time all season we had one by Arby’s, and you know in the Arby’s commercial the guy comes on and says "We’ve got the meats" or however he says it. So we had this great game, but our guy today tells me "You know what people liked?" And I was like "What, one of the KD blocks? Was it a pass inside?" "No. They loved the way you read that Arby’s commercial." I said "Really, God." I’m amazed at the type of stuff people latch onto, and that’s why I don’t go on social media and see this stuff because you’re kind of seduced into thinking "Well that’s who I’ve gotta be. That’s how I’ve gotta act with more humor." I think if the humor comes naturally, especially with the guy you’re with, then it feels organic, but if it’s forced and you’re trying to do funny lines and skits and little bits and stuff, I think people can kind of see through that.

I never go into a game thinking "Hey let’s try and be funny tonight" or "Let’s try to be passionate, real, excited when maybe the game isn’t so." I go in thinking nothing except let’s begin as a pro, stay as professional as you can. Make sure you never lose sight of the game regardless of what the score is, and make sure you’re doing an honest job in reporting the game. And if the other stuff tries to fall in because of a guy slipping or something goofy happening,a guy gets hit on the head with a ball or whatever it might be, you’re loose enough and in the moment enough that you kind of laugh and have fun because you know your viewer is probably laughing at whatever it might be.

What did you mean when you said that you love the business but don’t like things around the business?

I don’t like…the travel is, and people always say that, and who am to complain about the travel, especially now, I’m only doing a game or two a week. But when football is going on and I’m doing a Sunday, a Monday, and a Thursday, that can be pretty tough. And we just became empty nesters, so now my wife is going with me on trips and that has been a game changer because we’ve been married 31 years and we had four kids and our last one just left for college. She was just with me in San Francisco the last couple of days and that was terrific, and I would’ve hated to be out there without her. She made the trip and it just changed everything. That part of it actually is getting better.

It becomes tiresome and comes with the territory, and I’m not complaining, but there’s a lot of scrutiny on every word that we say. "What did he mean by that?" and "How should I take that?" We had a broadcaster in Oklahoma City say something that was unfortunate and was hurtful to some and we all get that. I think instead of just calling the game you’ve got to be very cognizant of how you present it and what you say, and that becomes an additional challenge. Again, not complaining, it just becomes something else on your plate that you’ve got to consider. And you should! It’s great this is all happening in our society. That there’s this real concerted effort by everybody—hopefully, certainly by us broadcasters—to make sure that you’re treating people the right way. That you’re never trying to say anything hurtful or disrespectful. And not that guys in the past would ever do that, but it’s a different climate we’re in now.

When I say it’s the stuff around, I shouldn’t complain about that. It was in the past, the travel. And now that my wife is with me it’s much better. I think we’re more on guard in what we say and we’ve got to be careful with what we say, more than ever before and there’s example after example, from Jimmy the Greek to the golf guy talking about a female swing of a club. All this stuff is out there and you’ve just got to be very, very careful that you don’t offend anybody and represent yourself and your company in a professional way. You can’t go into a broadcast scared, but you’ve got to go into a broadcast with that sense of awarness. Not that you didn’t before but it’s even, I’m sure you can appreciate, even more now that you really not say anything that would be construed or taken in a way that you don’t want, and it’s not kind or fair to other people.

How do you prepare for a game?

When you first get in the business, there’s the release and newspaper stories and that’s it. Now you’ve got very smart bloggers out there and you’ve got these websites that look at the analytics, and you feel like if you don’t visit these sites and take advantage of all these different ways to get information that you’re letting down your audience, thus not being the professional that you need to be.

You’ve gotta go and make sure you check all this stuff, because you don’t want to be left not in the know. You don’t want to miss a great statistic that would complement a big play by Harden or whatever. Luckily, the media relations staffs of all these different teams are dialed into these things too, so a lot of times they’ll put them in their notes which is really helpful because it saves you time from having to go and look this stuff up.

There was this guy who was a blogger. His name was Dieter Kurtenbach. I read a couple of his stories and I thought wow this guy is really good. Trying to find guys like that to read, like Bill Simmons. I think Simmons has a very interesting basketball mind. His mind is fascinating to me. There are a lot of them. There are so many. You’ve got to read what they think.

To get back to your question, the first thing I like to do is read the beat writers from each of the teams going in because they’re there every practice, every press conference, every game, every quarter, every dribble, they’ve seen it all. They’ll know far more than I’ll ever know about the team, but we’re expected to go into that arena, sit in that chair, put on that headset, and be as knowledgeable as those beat guys are. So you start there. Then you go to the release because you want to make sure you’ve got the details correct. Sometimes the stories can have an errant number or something like that, so you go back and double check, and then you start to hunt for stories online. Writers you know, websites you go to, statistical pages which are very important and have more of an analytical insight, whether it’s PER or whatever it might be.

You always say, I want one sentence on every player, so if I’m watching John Wall at the free-throw line I want to know, "John Wall grew up in North Carolina, he was a player of the year, he played a year at Kentucky, never thought of another school, first pick," whatever I might say about him, but that I can say it in one line. It’ll take about five to seven seconds, and that’s what you try to do.

But in the world we’re in, and as fast as the pro game moves, so much of what we’ve written and prepared for can’t be used because the game is so fast. It’s like "score, score, rebound, free-throw, read a card, another free throw, back at it they go." There’s never a time to catch your breath, which is the beauty of the college game. In the college game there’s far more space. There are these times to breathe and you can tell a story. You can get into a meaningful conversation with your analyst, because they use a lot of the clock, they don’t move as fast, they’re not as skilled, there’s not as much scoring, there are a lot of missed shots, on and on and on and on. In the NBA they’re so skilled. It’s a great pass, it’s a terrific rebound, it’s a wonderful three-point shot, and there’s so much to document that you can’t go to your information. So you’re discouraged a little bit on the pro side that you can’t get out all the good stuff that you’ve got. And there’s so much good stuff out there. And that can be a little frustrating.

The college game—I just finished doing the tournament—there is a ton of space. The game moves slower. It’s a natural rhythm for a broadcast. The NBA really should be done as a radio broadcast because more times than not if you try and get any kind of meaningful conversation with the analyst, the analyst is saying "ah, the two points there by Jaylen Brown and they’re going the other way, and as I was saying…" You’re constantly doing all this work without any chance to get it in, where as in the college game there is so much time and space and pockets that you can really kind of put stuff into and set up and get a storyline established. It’s great. But, that being said, the skill level between the two styles is immense. It’s absolutely immense.

You’ve got a bunch of people to read. They’re scary to read because they’re so smart, and so provocative, and so dead on with what they say, you feel sometimes like "God, why didn’t I think of that?" [Laughs]. I say that all the time. I have a lot of respect for the people that cover these games.

What’s the best game you’ve ever called?

You know I’d like to think that I haven’t called it. I like to think that it’s still ahead of me. I like to think that all the mistakes I’ve made in all the years I’ve been lucky enough to do this, I’d like to think that it’s yet to come. I’ve had a couple of Super Bowls that have been great because of last-minute heroics. The Malcolm Butler interception for the Pats on Russell Wilson. The historic comeback by Brady and the Patriots against Atlanta. If you’re lucky enough to get a Super Bowl like that it’s terrific. So there have been plays within games that I’ve been pleased with.

Listen, after every broadcast I can pick a thousand things I would say or do differently. A thousand. Maybe more. I wish I would’ve let it breathe more. I wish I would’ve put more emphasis on it. I wish I would’ve been smart enough in the moment to ask my analyst this or lead him into that or follow up with something he said or told the truck "No let’s hold off on that graphic because I think there’s something else more important." There’s a thousand of those moments every single broadcast. So I like to think, and I’ll probably never have it, I like to think that my best broadcast is yet to come. But if it doesn’t, as I tell each of my three girls and our son, something that I learned very early on, it’s cliche but it’s so true: The journey is the essence of why you’re doing it. That is the reward. Going through all the preparation, making all the flights, not getting a lot of sleep, handling a different team from night to night, trying to be as good as you are. Your voice on some nights could be spot on and you could rattle off and not trip over anything. There are other nights where it’s like pulling gum out of your teeth. There’s no flow, there’s no rhythm, there’s no pace, there’s none of it. Those nights are just so frustrating.

I’ve never had a perfect broadcast or been close to one. I doubt I ever will, but I love the challenge of going for that. I love the challenge of preparing both my delivery and presentation with the notes that I have, and the information I’ve got. I love the challenge of aiming for that in every broadcast, and am disappointed when I fall short. But know that there’s another game coming up. It’s like a torture chamber to sit and listen [through my tapes]. "That was stupid, that was dumb, that was wrong, that didn’t sound good, talk slower" it’s just everything.

I don’t want to bring up any bad memories, but does any one gaffe stand out?

There’s things you probably would not say again. I’m trying to think if there’s anything that..for whatever reason I can’t think of one. I’m sure there are. You know when that kid ran out on that field in San Francisco a couple years ago, I was scared to death going back to the San Francisco airport thinking that was gonna be a real problem for me. My boss was standing next to me when the drunk kid ran out on the field and I kinda went with it, but I thought "This is the one thing they do not want you to do, is they do not want you to…"

Draw attention?

Yeah! Which is exactly what I did! I broke every rule right there.

I don’t know anyone who didn’t love that.

[Laughs] It turned out well, but had I been doing the game on TV for CBS, I would never have done it because that is just an automatic "no." But on radio I guess it was just a bit different because you’re so used to describing every single thing you see on the field, and the kid ran right through the formation as they were lining up to take the snap. So it looked like he was a slot receiver. And he ran right by them! And he was allowed to run on the field for like 40 seconds before the security guys came out and got him. So there have been moments like that where I thought "That probably wasn’t very smart."

A lot of times you’ll say the wrong pronunciation of a guy’s name or you’ll say something and local fans in Milwaukee or Houston will say "that’s not right," and you completely flub that up and they call you out on it. Those are the things that you really begin to dread. Every mistake is a learning process and you just don’t do it again. You spend extra time on pronunciations. You spend extra time on making sure everything is dotted and crossed the right way.

Which player right now excites you the most, as a broadcaster? Is it an athletic star—LeBron or Russell Westbrook—or someone more like, say, Lance Stephenson, who provides pure entertainment in a different form?

I don’t know if the league has ever had a deeper list of great players. I’m watching Antetokounmpo right now. Oh my God. I mean this guy is just, he is a fascinating player with his background. So when I see him do things, the agility he has for his size, I’m just amazed. Harden to me is…he’s not Michael and he’s not LeBron. He’s not Kobe. I’ve had the honor of calling all three of their careers. I started doing Jordan his rookie year. Kobe, did a lot of his games as a rookie in the playoffs, right through his last season. Then LeBron since he got in the league. So those three guys are just incredible. But Harden is different than any player I can recall. Harden scores, he shoots, he sets up, he’s as unbelievable an offensive player as I’ve seen. He really is.

He’s brilliant.

He is brilliant. He is absolutely brilliant. And then LeBron of course, what we’re seeing him do just has never been done. Jordan to me was so exciting. I caught a little bit of Dr. J in his last couple years because I started in the 80s. But he wasn’t like these guys. Dr. J was graceful and had a majesty about him, where LeBron is, as we all know, for his size, to do what he does, and have the skills of a guard and the wherewithal of a big man, is just amazing. But Harden to me is a pretty unique guy and I don’t even know I can do justice in trying to really describe his game because I think you wouldn’t understand it unless you saw it. He doesn’t have the physical, imposing features of Jordan, even Kobe—who bulked up during his career—and certainly LeBron. He doesn’t look like them.

I love shooting. I love the art of a jump shot. And maybe it’s because I work with Reggie [Miller] and worked with Steve Kerr that I have a great appreciation for just how hard it is to do that, have all the mechanics that make it work, whether you’re guarded or unguarded, five feet or 25 feet away. I just love those guys. I think I love them more than the alley-oops and the jams. I thought I loved the dunks and all that power, which are great, they’re fun. But you see them so often.

To see a real skilled shooter like Ray Allen or Miller or now Curry, and Klay, and Harden…I am loving this space and pace and passing. Passing to me, and shooting, are like the two most wonderful things about this game. I love great sets and intricate plays. But I love the passing that gets you through that and makes a play become that memorable play. And so those are my two favorite things: passing and shooting. And I couldn’t put one over the other. They’re hand in hand. Those are the things that I enjoy the most about the game.

The player who’s most intriguing to me is Harden because he’s unlike Kobe, Michael, and LeBron. He’s just a different guy. Now they all have elements of what he has but I don’t think he has any elements of what they have. They were power and force and ferocity. The athleticism. Not that James isn’t athletic but he’s not that athletic. He’s not Kobe Bryant, Jordan, LeBron athletic. So he’s doing it on guile and skill and nuance and adroit footwork. Just all this great stuff that to me is fascinating.

I don't know him. I’ve never talked to him. He probably has no idea who I am, but in calling as many games of his as I have, I just have more of an appreciation for him every time I see him play. And I have that same appreciation for the shooters I see, and I love shots. Big shots, long shots. Who was the guy that played point guard for the Kings back in the early 2000’s?

Jason Williams.

Jason Williams. I wish I could’ve bottled that team. I wish all these kids passed like that. I wish they passed behind the back. I just wish there was more. I kind of held out hope that Ricky Rubio was gonna be like that, and at times he can do something like that, but he didn’t become the full blown Jason Williams that I thought he might be. When Jason Williams was on that team, kind of freestyling, freewheeling, swashbuckling, I just loved it. I absolutely loved watching him play. That was fun and entertaining and just the craft and the skill it took to pass like that I just found… "Wow what am I seeing?" because not every guy can do it. But those guys that can, and shoot with the consistency from outside, that’s kind of what Harden is. Harden has that wow factor where it’s like "How did he stop so fast that a good, agile guard is thrown off his balance and falls down? How does that happen? How does he do that?" And he does it gracefully. He said the other day, "I don’t know how I do it, I just do it. And I think about it but don’t know how I do it." I just find that really, really fascinating.

Well, he’s about to win his first MVP.

He is, he is. Is he your MVP?

Oh, no question.

LeBron has had a great statistical season, there’s no doubt. In any other year he’d probably win, but this guy, this year has been great.

I’m not sure if you can make predictions on the record or not so I’ll word it in case you can’t: Which team do you think will be the hardest to defeat over the next couple months?

I think if Golden State is anything like they’ve been against a very smart San Antonio team, minus their best player, in Curry—they’ve kind of been in this malaise, whether they were bored or whatever—they have hit another gear, and they’re looking like the team that won last year. And as good as Houston is, and they are good, and it hurt them to lose Mbah a Moute, they’re gonna miss his defense and they’re gonna need it against a team like Golden State should that be a series. But Golden State is showing all the earmarks of being the team they’ve been, even though the regular season maybe didn’t reveal it as much. You know, they won 58 games. That was third most in the league, and everyone says "Oh, they’re complacent" and "Oh, they’re gonna flip a switch." I would never degrade them and say it’s as easy as flipping a switch. I just think that for whatever reason, with guys injured and the season being so long, they weren’t gonna move up and catch Houston or drop back any further and lose that position. I think they just kind of said let’s refine what we’re doing, let’s work on the small things, and it’s starting to show. When they get Curry back, and if their bench can give them a little bit more, I think they’re going to be a very difficult out regardless of who they play.

I picked Houston before the season started and I’m sticking with that prediction.

I like it, I love the pick. I love the pick of Houston. I love them, I love them. Morey is definitely the Executive of the Year, and they bolstered their bench and they’ve got defensive minded guys. What I find remarkable about Houston is Paul and Harden are able to figure out between the two of them, they can defer when the other one is going. They have that innate feel and relationship that they don’t get pushed out of shape, maybe when the other guy takes a shot and they thought they should’ve. There’s not been an issue there. They’re friends. And they’re teammates to the best degree it seems like, and I think that’s been a remarkable story. And there’s a lot to like about Houston. I’m splitting hairs here but I do think if Curry can come back and be the Curry that we know, I think Golden State is going to be a very, very difficult out.

Hopefully we get them in the Western Conference Finals. My fingers are crossed.

As basketball fans, wouldn’t that be a treat? My goodness.

Kevin will call Game 4 of Timberwolves-Rockets alongside Reggie Miller and Kristen Ledlow, Monday (April 23) at 8 p.m. ET on TNT